Here's an update about my knee pain recovery journey after my injury or flare in The Galapagos. When PT was only making my pain feel worse, I uncovered some relational fears and talk you through my current process and how I'm helping my mind and body find safety, create the environment for healing and how I re-found a mantra "Strong Like Simba."
Here's an update about my knee pain recovery journey after my injury or flare in The Galapagos.
When PT was only making my pain feel worse, I uncovered some relational fears and talk you through my current process and how I'm helping my mind and body find safety, create the environment for healing and how I re-found a mantra "Strong Like Simba."
Here's links for all the awesome resources I describe in the podcast.
Journal Speak - https://www.thecureforchronicpain.com/journalspeak
More about Journal Speak - https://mytmsjourney.com/resources/journalspeak-by-nicole-sachs-lcsw/
Charlie Merrill, PT - https://www.mperformance.com/beyondpaineducation
His IG is awesome - https://www.instagram.com/charliemerrill/
My article about my Kilimanjaro trip - https://cnocoutdoors.com/blogs/blog/deb-curvy-kili-crew
Indigo's Testimonial - https://www.thecuriositycure.coach/p/client-results
[00:00:00] Welcome to the curiosity cure podcast. I'm your host, Deb Malkin, master certified life coach, body worker, hypnotist trained in pain reprocessing by the pain psychology center, queer elder fat human on planet earth here to help you evoke the power of simple neuroplasticity techniques rooted in shame, free curiosity.
[00:00:29] So you can feel more better. More of the time in the body you have today and build the rich, full life that you want to live. A quick disclaimer. This podcast is not a replacement for medical care. I am here to provide insights and techniques that can compliment your healthcare journey, but always consult with your healthcare provider for personalized advice.
[00:00:56] Hello, feelers and healers. Welcome to the Curiosity Cure. I am your host, Deb Malkin. I'm doing another recap on life with me. I am coming back to my journal speak practice because I am mad. At my knee.
[00:01:16] I should tell you what journal speak is. So journal speak is a practice that was developed by Nicole Sachs, who is a licensed therapist and who was a client of Dr. Sarno's. And so she was both his client and then his colleague. And now she has a practice called journal speak. And she has a great podcast. She's one of the leaders in this mind, body healing field. And, I have just been brought back into, my own practice of doing journal speak. One of the reasons is I was asked to be a moderator of the Facebook group by Phil De La Haye, who I interviewed for this very podcast, season two, episode 21 about mind, body healing and IFS. He is a moderator in Nicole Sachs' group and invited me to join them among other people. And so I was like, you know what? This timing is pretty amazing because there is some work, internal work that is being called upon.
[00:02:21] So I posted in the Facebook group, I said, I'm coming back to my journal speak practice because I am mad at my knee. I feel like I have quote unquote worked so hard at rehabbing and getting stronger. And while I was on a very active, for me vacation, I knelt weird and my knee had a very strong opinion about that.
[00:02:44] And I put in parentheses might have torn my meniscus, but don't know a hundred percent, but it felt the same way as my left knee when I did tear my meniscus on my left knee. And kind of my update is I, I'm not sure that I tore my meniscus or not, but. That's a little, that's a little preview. So after I got home, I went to the orthopedist and he thankfully was not an alarmist and my x ray showed mild to moderate osteoarthritis, which is the same that it's been in a long time. Thank goodness for a doctor who is not doom and gloom. My knee, this knee, this is what I say. I don't even say my knee, I say this knee. has been my foil since I was a kid. I also knelt weird as a kid on my bathroom counter and was diagnosed with chondromalacia patella in middle school and I wore a brace for a while.
[00:03:38] Then when I was in my restorative exercise training, we did. a long jump exercise, which was kind of nonsensical. So I have some strong feelings about it. We did this long jump exercise and my knee flared up and I had to take time off of training for Kilimanjaro. Only three months before I left for Tanzania, my knee was struggling so much that I decided to get STEM cell therapy.
[00:04:06] And I put in parentheses, placebo, self efficacy and resting. I think is what really helped, not necessarily the stem cells. After which I was not allowed to hike until I got to Kilimanjaro. So my first day back hiking was our first day on the mountain. And there's an article that I wrote about the trip that I actually had forgotten about.
[00:04:29] So I'll drop a link to it in the show notes. You'll see in that article, my guide who is partnered with me for a lot of it, kept saying strong like Simba and I am going to now reintegrate this strong like Simba mantra back into my life.
[00:04:48] So it's been a lot of drama, me and my knee. I'm a pretty high emotions, dramatic person. My trainings for restorative exercise certification and also climbing Kilimanjaro were both very high stakes events for me as a bigger person who was in their mid forties. There was a lot of all or nothing thinking going on. I definitely felt like I had something to prove.
[00:05:14] And that's directly informed by the intensity of fat phobia I've dealt with throughout my life. The judgment about my size, my abilities, or lack of have been insidiously planted, and I notice how preemptively defensive I feel whenever I feel like I'm weak or hurt or need help.
[00:05:33] I can see, I think of my knee as something that holds me back from the life I want to be living. I had a hard time as a kid being bullied by my family for being chubby and not supported in the activities I loved and wanted to do and ended up feeling really disenfranchised from my body. I've done a lot of work on all of that and feel really loving and accepting of my body, accepting for everything but this knee.
[00:06:01] Most of the time it doesn't hurt. It holds me up and it takes me places and it needs care, but I notice I feel really mad and resentful about that. This is what's bringing me back to my journaling practice. I don't want to be mad at any part of me.
[00:06:18] I didn't make up this situation of being othered for being bigger. It's not my fault or my little kid's fault. It's really hard to move on from self blame when it comes to anything around weight. And if I do have any kind of tissue damage, I trust my body to repair it and it will take time. So this seems like the best time for me to work through all of this displaced anger, fury, and entitlement.
[00:06:43] And then I ended with thanks for listening. It feels good to have written this down someplace with people who understand. I would love to hear anyone's experience journaling around hating their body or part of their body. If you would like to share what has helped you and it got a lot of hearts, you know, it's always so nice to write something and have other people resonate with it.
[00:07:05] And, another moderator, Justine, read what I wrote as I'm reading your post, I'm feeling curious about a few things. Here's some journal prompts. If any of them resonate. What do you believe about your knees and their ability to handle you and what you put them through?
[00:07:22] What other experiences have you had with people and situations that taught you you are, quote unquote, too much?
[00:07:30] I wrote back, that feels like a gold mine to explore.
[00:07:34] I noticed I often have the feelings like I'm too much, not just too much in terms of the space that I take up, but also in terms of personality, lovability, friendship, and connection. I want or take too much. I'm entitled and selfish. I should be giving more, more, more.
[00:07:55] Well, isn't that a crock of socialize as a woman shit? There's a deep wound in there and now I'm curious versus avoidant to explore now, that I trust that I have the skills to safely do that.
[00:08:11] Like my mother telling me as a young kid that no one will love me if I'm fat and the less language, more developmental attached stuff, the feeling of embodied safety with myself and others. That's. That's really what I want to feel. So I can't go back and make those words not come out of her mouth. I can't change the past and her orientation towards my body, that it was something that needed to be different in order for me to be okay.
[00:08:42] She wasn't wrong. She accurately was reading the room on body size, stigma, discrimination, and so on. Sadly, the only remedy she saw was for me to change, not for society to change. I never really got the message that my body was capable or safe. I was only the enemy or the obstacle, and this knee injury is triggering some of those same beliefs, beliefs that were installed without my permission, which only I can be the one to rewrite.
[00:09:16] That's where mind body medicine really comes in. Starting with believing that my body heals. And there's so much evidence of that, even evidence that my knee pain isn't a constant, that it is variable. And having the embodied cognitive experience of feeling the strength of my knee, leg, or other body part, no matter how fleeting. But noticing that's there as often as possible. How often do we train our brains to notice a not thing. Hey brain, notice not pain, notice not distress, notice not struggle, probably not often, but it's there. It is there for every person. This makes me think back to a client, Indigo. I helped with back pain who went from decades of back pain to someone who drove across the country without pain or walking long distances with confidence.
[00:10:15] She was taught to keep a pain journal that was so well kept. It was a beautiful depiction of a brain trained to notice track and color code every single experience of pain, inadvertently teaching her brain to filter out all input except sensations of the back. Since we know that the brain is a predictive organ, It's matching its current experience to its back to the past to deliver the experience we are expecting to have.
[00:10:47] And of course, this is unconscious without your intentional creation. This is literally just how the brain works. I knew that she needed to break that habit of noticing, spotlighting and hyper vigilantly tracking current or potential unpleasant back sensations. Just that action paired with some pain neuroscience education would make a difference.
[00:11:13] But I think the coaching work that we did around emotions, teaching her skills of what to do when you experience pain, those all really made a big difference, right? So we not just, Had a little difference. We had a really big difference. She wrote this testimonial, that's on my website.
[00:11:32] She writes four days after I got my second COVID vaccine. So that gives you a kind of a timeframe sense. I hopped in my car and drove across country and back. I made it from North Carolina to California in three and a half days. I never could have done this without Deb's pain course.
[00:11:50] Before the course, I let back pain define and rule my life. I saw myself as someone with a bad back, which was a huge part of my identity. Almost every day I feared my back and my life was going to be that of my mother's who is 30 years older than I am. Deb's class helped me shift my perspective. I realized I can see myself as a capable person who sometimes has back pain.
[00:12:15] That was probably my biggest revelation. Before I started the course, I wished that she would teach me to power through my pain. Maybe I could learn to walk over hot coals or something. Then I realized that would be unrealistic. As long as I'm human, I will experience pain. Besides my reframe, I also learned about graded exposure, paying more attention to my back. On my trip across country, I stopped and stretched when my back was feeling a little bit upset. A few minutes of stretching made a great deal of difference. I know this course was one of my most transformative and valuable things I've ever experienced.
[00:12:53] So the same thing that I did with Indigo, I can do with me.
[00:12:58] Make a safe place for feelings. Um, teach the brain to notice strength, stability, and the mind body connection between things, and then work on enhancing physical and emotional safety so that my body doesn't need to quote unquote protect by pain, which is the twin peaks model as we discussed in season two episode 23 called post flare care.
[00:13:22] One of the unexpected things that has happened, since I made that Episode was that P. T. was not helping. It was flaring my symptoms so much that I ended up canceling my second trip. And now there might be a mind body component to that. I was happy with the decision, even though it was hard to make as well as emotionally vulnerable to know that I was possibly disappointing a friend.
[00:13:48] Because I was going on this trip to visit a friend and I realized that I wasn't allowing myself the option to cancel, that I really felt like I, I have to, or I should, go on this trip. And so maybe that was, An invitation for my pain to get a little bit louder and a little bit brighter. That's very possible.
[00:14:10] But 1 thing I really did see was after doing. PT and after doing the exercises on a daily basis I was feeling worse and not better. So that's like a pretty straightforward piece of information. Whether that was my tissues that weren't ready for the PT exercises she recommended solely, or if it was a combination of that plus feeling like she wasn't hearing me in our sessions when I was describing how things were feeling. It was a subtle kind of disconnect, but my inner child self protector subconscious decided that no, this wasn't working for me. And I'm not saying the exercises she gave me were wrong, but she was telling me fearful things about my back, which I think amplified my fear.
[00:14:58] And my sensations are always bigger, louder, and brighter when I am afraid. At the same time PT was making more pain, not less, I started to look into what are my options to help tissue healing? I found a chiropractor that does a treatment called slow wave technology, which claims to inspire tissue stem cell regeneration, but with a smaller cost of money and time than, That other stem cell treatment that I had done.
[00:15:29] I did some reading about it and the answers were mixed, whether it's actually effective. Some people believed it was exactly the thing that helped them. I had a $67 offer for an evaluation and initial treatment and follow up. So, low barrier to entry. And I had some worries that I was falling into a sales trap, but the chiropractor had great reviews everywhere I looked and maybe the only downside was the terrible parking, which was true.
[00:15:58] What I noticed that was relevant for my experience. It was an internal conflict about whether or not I was allowed to be pursuing a body based solution for my pain, and somehow that would be hypocritical or would put my work relationships and acceptance at risk. I was noticing how much I was afraid of social rejection, and I let those fears control my choices about what might be the best course of action for my body.
[00:16:29] What I realized in this process is that fear is huge in me. I was literally terrified that somehow my colleagues or my teachers would find out and be disappointed in me. I realized I was treating it as something I needed to hide. What I noticed was the connections to childhood trauma and survival patterns.
[00:16:53] Watching my nervous system respond to the imagined threat of being ostracized so quickly was fascinating. I realized I had a duality, betray them or betray me. So this was this kind of subconscious belief that I almost tripped over, that I discovered. So I reached out to a friend because I saw that I was making this into a problem. And I asked her to help me sound out my conflicting beliefs. Dr. Sarno has an entire book called The Divided Mind. And he talks about one of these foundational pieces for pain is to protect the ego from any kind of threat. So this kind of fear of being ostracized or rejected is very familiar to me. So I was able to see, in talking through it with her, that my perfectionism and my desire for the good regard of others and connection was driving my confusion and feeling like I was going to be in trouble.
[00:18:00] I decided I needed the freedom to explore, but also to bring in the mind body science knowledge to help me make a decision. The most important piece out of it, all of it was that I needed to be free To make my own decision. And the moment that I felt like I couldn't, I shut down. So for some pain science education reinforcement, I asked my teacher, Charlie Merrill, PT athlete and mind body educator. I'll drop his link. He teaches a course with Dr. Howard Schubiner. So I dropped him an email cause I was like, you know what, my brain right now is kind of in a bit of a swirl. So let me see more neutral, but still, mind body oriented information can I get?
[00:18:48] So I wrote to him, Hi, it's been forever. If you have time to send me back a reply, I would love your opinion. I'm currently working through a knee injury I experienced while on vacation in the Galapagos last month. I'm doing my mind body work and I'm feeling much better, but we have a provider nearby that does tissue recovery work with this soft wave machine. And would love to know your thoughts regarding these types of treatments and whether there's enough foundation for their claims.
[00:19:16] And Charlie writes back, Deb, this technology has been used for tendon problems and things like plantar fasciitis for years. I've had it done to my feet just to see how it felt.
[00:19:26] The results have been extremely inconsistent, similar to stem cell injections and PRP. They act like a strong placebo. Like any bottom up modality, I think it works more on the brain and nervous system than it does on the local tissues. As a result, belief plays a huge role in the effectiveness. While you could make an argument that D N I C, pain inhibits pain, is at play here, I think it's more accurate to say that the effectiveness will depend on how much the modality reduces fear.
[00:19:59] I personally don't love any intervention that reinforces dependency, and as a result, I think passive modalities have very limited utility. But if cost isn't too much of a barrier, you might try it for yourself. Nice to hear from you. And I hope you continue to feel better as you get back to moving and being in your body again. Always the best medicine, Charlie.
[00:20:20] Then I wrote, thanks. I'm definitely leaning in that direction, but wanted to have an informed opinion to support my decision. I'm on the mend definitely. They did give me one treatment during my intake and I was told that it jump starts cellular repair! Then I put a little exclamation mark.
[00:20:38] And sometimes all we need is one session. So I'm going to take that belief invitation and think that one was enough. Weirdly, I went in for my follow up expecting a big like sell big sales job. And I didn't get that at all, which was really kind of nice. But between the chiro I saw for my intake and my PT, I've been experiencing back pain because they were very adamant about my back being the cause of my leg and knee issues.
[00:21:05] And the chiropractor even showed me on a chart, the level of degeneration I have three out of three. Not surprisingly, I didn't have any recurring back pain before this. I am such a TMS poster child. Then I asked him for permission to read his response on the podcast. I'm telling the story of my progress and this feels really relevant and important to share. Thanks.
[00:21:28] So Charlie writes, yes, of course, Deb share away. The one thing I didn't share in my first email is that I don't like using technologies that make people dependent and leave them with the idea that their body can't heal itself, that somehow they need help to improve their blood flow or natural healing abilities.
[00:21:47] That's all marketing. So glad that you didn't get a hard sell that left you feeling that way. As for the chiropractor and the PT, they're just doing what they learned in school, old school biomedical conceptualization that is neither true nor helpful. I hope that you can embrace your TMS poster child. It just makes you human and more in touch with your true nature.
[00:22:11] And then I just sent back a reply with a lot of sobbing emojis that said working on it because embracing who you are, what? I mean, right? Isn't that the core of this work that I've been talking about this whole time? So I'm like, is that me? Am I a TMS poster child? I mean, I don't know. I do know that my brain is much faster to assume that there's something wrong, that I am uniquely broken, that my body doesn't have what it needs to heal and to be forever seeking remedies outside of myself. It was almost like no matter how much data I have about mind body healing, no matter how many recovery stories I hear or help create, no matter that it's worked for me in the past, somehow, this time, my body, brain, and nervous system are so different from other humans that I couldn't possibly have this work. I know I'm one of a kind, but I'm not this much one of a kind.
[00:23:09] So between my experience, understanding, and Charlie's backup, I decided not to pursue the treatment. And weirdly, you know, when I didn't get a hard sell that was relieving, but I had practiced saying, I'm going to take a minute to think about it because I wanted to be able to go into the follow up and listen and connect and see what was going on without feeling like I had to say yes or I had to say no. Not feeling, um, defensive going in, which is another practice that I've been doing, which is being open to help and assistance.
[00:23:45] I'm still improving daily with the work I'm doing and the not work I'm doing. If it's sore or painful when I get up from sitting, I pause and relax and know that whatever happens in the next minute doesn't count for anything. The sensations always shift, and sometimes they aren't even there. I'm going to imagine myself Strong Like Simba and see what happens. See what shifts. This has been a fascinating experience. The most annoying of invitations. Like, why does healing need the pain as the instigator? Maybe because I'd likely ignore it if it was a letter sent in the mail.
[00:24:25] Now I'm curious about my upcoming IFS training, in internal family systems as medical treatment. I'm taking a masterclass with Dr. Rankin and Frank Anderson. I can see how healing The attachment wounds is going to benefit my physical being. This knee can really benefit from being relieved of its job to protect the emotional me, the soul me. After the course, I'll know more, if I want to proceed with working with an IFS therapist or coach. My inner child is asking for my help.
[00:25:01] Here's a message I shared with a friend. My knee in general is feeling better and believing healing is happening and moving and bouncing and being gentle and not demanding, which is a growing edge for me. It brought up a lot of relational stuff and some inner child healing work. There's definitely a yearning for care and help being triggered by this. But it's not my knee, it's me that needs care and connection and things that feel good and aren't fixing focused. So I actually decided to book a massage that is going to be about good feelings and about relaxation and not focused on fixing any particular problem.
[00:25:45] I actually can't believe how good I'm feeling in general. I'm much less fearful. I'm moving more and with more confidence. I'm tracking positive changes. I'm making small movement optimist choices instead of sitting on the couch with ice all the time. I'm challenging myself, but with less pressure and holding it all loosely. I'm creating a great foundation for healing, including good sleep, more hydration. I bought a new water bottle just for this. I got some bone broth and taking collagen. That's in the can't hurt might help category. And I'm imagining my body's natural healing systems operating well. I do a few minutes of lymph massage and a few minutes of intentional movement, like rebounding and recumbent bike riding to safely add load to the tissues. Healing is happening.
[00:26:39] Finally, what I'm starting to believe is that my knee is not my enemy. My knee is not working against me, that my knee and I are in this together. I am really so grateful for my knee to show me this next layer of healing that I have the privilege of doing.
[00:27:04] So if persistent pain or fear about pain is something that you deal with and find that you would like help navigating these experiences, please book a curiosity call with me. Link to a curiosity call with me is found in the show notes. I'm here to help you get back to adventuring in your today body with all the tools to help you navigate whatever arises.
[00:27:29] Be Like Indigo, be like Sophie, bring your skepticism, bring your history of pain and sensations and emotions, bring it all. Bring it all and I will help you navigate how to unlearn pain and unwire this sensitive conditioned response. I will help you find more ease, more peace, less fear, more possibility in your body. Maybe that is what we call healing. Thank you so much for listening. And I look forward to sharing with you again. Thank you bye..